Why We Stopped Using eBay and Paypal

I will never sell or buy another item on ebay and will never use paypal to receive funds or pay for anything ever again.

Paypal absolutely did my head in a couple of months ago when they demanded that after several years I reverify myself and company or they would freeze the account. I spent almost a week sending the documents only to be told each time "information not received". After almost 7 days of this bullshit and many phone calls and messages I finally got a person on the phone that let me know what the problem was. These idiots were not telling me they could not read the scanned pdf document which we could read clearly and which we kept uploading and sending them. Apparently they could only see a blank page with whatever pdf reader they use!

Over the years we have spent thousands of dollars on ebay subscriptions and ebay fees and wasted may hours trying to navigate the crappy ebay admin interface which forces one to endure many new page loads to complete a single task. There is an ebay subscription fee to have a store, ebay posting fees, ebay additional category fees, ebay final value fees, paypal fees and then if anything goes slightly against the way they like they will claw all the funds back from you!

In the years we operated our ebay store we never once had negative feed back and there was only one time we received a neutral feed back and this was due to Australia Post taking about 4 days to send a parcel from rural New South Wales to rural Victoria, which in actual fact is within the Australia Post suggested times but we got a neutral feedback rating for that.

Margins become really thin selling on eBay and then accepting the payment via Paypal. If you look at the math on a sale of $100.00 for an item which you may need to purchase from your supplier at a 30% discount there is very little left for you after making the sale and accepting all the risk. The basic table below demonstrates this in simple terms without considering shipping and packaging costs to receive the item before the cost of then packaging and shipping the item to the customer is incurred.

Sale Price $100.00
GST $9.09
Subtotal $90.91
Paypal Fees $2.90
Subtotal $88.01
eBay fees without factoring monthly basic store cost $9.11
Subtotal $78.90
Wholesale purchase price of item $63.64
Amount remaining $15.26
If shipped Parcel Post in a 500g satchel @ $8.08 >10% margin $7.78

The eBay shipping calculator is atrocious and prone to regular errors. We only ever passed on the actual cost of shipping to our customers. When eBay were charging us $7.15 for an Australia Post 500g satchel that is all we ever charged customers we did not even add on our satchel cost. Australia Post increased the charge to $7.40 and it took months for eBay to update their calculator and even then it would occasionally still revert to the old $7.15 charge more than a year later for some orders even though we had updated all our global shipping rules. Overseas shipping calculations never ever matched what we were actually charged by Australia Post. Our own online stores we have assembled ourselves have no problem at all looking up the Australia Post API and quoting correct shipping costs to our customers but this simple task is mostly impossible for eBay. All these shipping quote errors caused by eBay cost us money and the issues were reported to eBay but never once did they accept responsibility or offer to compensate us in any way at all.

Received an ebay order for a repair kit worth $132.87 from Greece and ebay system quoted and charged the customer in Greece around $29.00 dollars for express shipping where the real cost of express shipping was closer to $59.00, yes almost half the cost of the item and the difference more than our margin.

Anyway we still posted the item to the customer in Greece on the 13th September and we placed the ebay store in holiday mode and also placed an out of office alert on any email messages on the 14th September until the 10th October, this was due to a trip that was organised more than 12 months prior.

We had no internet access from the 22nd September until the 5th October when we first saw an email from ebay demanding we respond by the 6th October. I emailed ebay immediately advising that we were away/no internet access/the item was posted/our store was in vacation mode etc and messaged Australia Post for a status update.

On the 10th we obtained internet access and saw that Australia Post had responded with this;

I am pleased to advise that the article arrived overseas on 4 October 2017 and is with their Border Check Controls. I would allow a week at least for them to hand over to the local postal service for delivery. If outstanding by 11 October 2017 please request the receiver to follow up with their postal service.

And then we saw that in our absence that ebay had refunded the customer in full on the 6th October.

Chronological case info from ebay

  1. Oct. 1 :
    The buyer didn't receive the item
    Buyer wants
    The item
    Comments
    for you, I do not hold my item
  2. Oct. 6 :
    The buyer has opened a case
    Comments
    I still haven t received my item
  3. Oct. 6 :
    The case was resolved [Ebay refunded the customer and accessed our Paypal account and withdrew the funds]
     

Oct. 10 :
You sent us an appeal
Comments
This item is still in transit to the buyer. I also had my store closed while this was going on as I was away with no internet access. I have sent the shipping information to ebay that i received from Australia Post I informed ebay by email before the cutoff date that I was traveling with very limited internet access until today the 10th please see the response from Australia Post as to the location of this product and please refund my money back to me. Australia Post advised on the 6/10/2017 Hi, There is an update for your enquiry. New Comment: Hi  Re: CF115283252AU Thank you for taking the time to contact us following up on the above referred article sent to overseas. I am pleased to advise that the article arrived overseas on 4 October 2017 and is with their Border Check Controls. I would allow a week at least for them to hand over to the local postal service for delivery. If outstanding by 11 October 2017 please request the receiver to follow up with their postal service. Please contact our International team on 1800 007 678 if the resolution is not satisfactory to the receiver. I hope that this information has helped and that you enjoy the rest of your day. If there is anything else that we can do for you, please do not hesitate to contact us again. Regards, Customer Care Australia Post 

Oct. 10 :
The appeal was closed with this;

This case is closed
We weren't able to give you a refund
After reviewing this case, we decided to keep the original outcome. We weren't able to grant your appeal because the tracking information was updated after the case was closed.
You won't receive a refund for this case.

Regarding this case eBay made the premature call to refund the customer on the 6th October when;

  • Online tracking was clearly available and demonstrated the item had indeed been shipped and had actually arrived in Greece.
  • Our eBay store was closed and in vacation mode until another 4 days after they refunded the customer.
  • Our eBay messages were set to return a "we are away until the 10th of October".
  • After we emailed eBay on the 5th October to advise we were away and had been without internet access and would be without internet access again until the 10th October and that the item had been shipped and we had asked Australia Post to investigate on the same day 5th October.
  • Without considering that we had never ever had a problem in the past or that we had never received a single negative feedback ever.
  • After the eBay system had totally stuffed up the shipping quote to the customer and grossly undercharged the customer.

At https://auspost.com.au/parcels-mail/track.html#/track?id=CF115283252AU Easy to see online Tracking status as of the 14th October was as follows;

Enter tracking number CF115283252AU

Status Status Time & Date Location
In transit
Item Cleared by customs 8:21am Tue 10 Oct  ATHENS (GR)
Dispatched Customer Enquiry lodged
9:34am Thu 5 Oct
 
Dispatched Arrived at facility in destination country 10:31am Wed 4 Oct  ATHENS (GR)
Dispatched Processed through facility 12:01pm Mon 18 Sep SYDNEY NSW
In transit
Processed through Australia Post facility 10:25pm Wed 13 Sep  Granville, NSW
In transit Accepted by Australia Post 4:44pm Wed 13 Sep  Windsor, NSW

During all this eBay continually maintained they could do nothing until there was proof of delivery.

As of the 18th October the tracking information was updated to this below;

Status Status Time & Date Location
Delivered Delivered 1:32pm Wed 18 Oct GR-71002, GREECE
In transit Item Cleared by customs 8:21am Tue 10 Oct  ATHENS (GR)
Dispatched Customer Enquiry lodged 9:34am Thu 5 Oct  
Dispatched Arrived at facility in destination country 10:31am Wed 4 Oct  ATHENS (GR)
Dispatched Processed through facility 12:01pm Mon 18 Sep SYDNEY NSW
In transit Processed through Australia Post facility 10:25pm Wed 13 Sep  Granville, NSW
In transit Accepted by Australia Post 4:44pm Wed 13 Sep  Windsor, NSW

eBay Australia & New Zealand Pty Ltd you have been sent our invoice for this item totaling $146.16 and a hard copy is in the post to your office. The amount is higher because you are in Australia and unlike the customer you refunded in Greece you must be charged GST. Payment is due on receipt.

While we were awaiting delivery confirmation we made phone calls and sent messages and in each instance eBay staff informed us there was nothing that they could do until there was proof of delivery.

Now this was totally expected but once we had proof of delivery we were forced to open a new case because eBay closed the original case and blocked any replies but the first reply we did receive from eBay after we opened a new case and sent them proof of delivery was this;

Thank you for contacting eBay Customer service in regard to Airlessco Repair Kit 187042 Teflon Equivalent  ( Item ID: 282046337305). I understand that the buyer has already received the item. I’m sorry to hear that you have an issue with this transaction. I’ll be glad to look into this for you.

 We denied the claim as the requested documentation from the customs was not submitted.  

 After reviewing the case, I see that the item finally shows as delivered to your buyer’s address. At the time that we made a decision on the case, the tracking number showed no recent movement. If the item did not move for more than 7 days, we consider the item as possibly lost in transit.  Since the item was not delivered at the time of case closure, I won't be able to grant your appeal.

 Although the item now shows as delivered, we will not be able to take the funds back once a full refund is issued.

 The best thing to do now is to restart communicating with your buyer and advise them to repay for the item.

 I provided you the following steps that you may send your buyer in order for them to pay you back.

 Here's how to make a payment  through PayPal (for buyer):

  1. Go to www.paypal.com and log in to your account.
  2. Click History at the top of the page.
  3. Find the payment you would like to refund and click Details.
  4. Click Issue Refund.
  5. Enter the refund amount and click Continue.
  6. Confirm the information and click Issue Refund.

If the Issue Refund button isn't there, then you can send the money back using the seller’s PayPal email address listed on the payment.

  1. Log in to your PayPal account.
  2. Click Send Money.
  3. Enter the recipient’s email address and the amount you want to send.
  4. Select Purchase or Personal, then choose the reason for the payment.
  5. Click Continue.
  6. Review the amount, the payment method, and shipping address.
  7. Add a message (if you want to), then click Send Money.

 

Here’s how to send an invoice through PayPal (for Seller):

 

1. Log in to PayPal.

2. Click the "Request Money" tab.

3. Click "Create an Invoice."

4. On the "Create a new invoice" page, review your information, enter the buyers information, and enter the item details.

5. Review the invoice carefully. If everything is correct, click the "Send" button

 

 I trust this information helps and we thank you for your patience regarding this matter.

 Thank you for choosing eBay on your online trading needs!

  Sincerely,

 Gemma Ana L.

eBay Customer Service

The incestuous relationship PayPal have with eBay means PayPal will not even let you dispute the fraudulent access by eBay you simply get served the message below;

PayPal block disputing eBay Transaction

Anyway we went into Paypal and sent the buyer an invoice asking for payment. If we do ever get the funds repaid then that will go towards the last months fees eBay are demanding because there is no way we will ever buy or sell anything ever again via these idiots. If we don't get the funds from the buyer then eBay will not be paid their last months fees. They just need to be stopped don't use them to buy or sell, period.

Ebay and paypal simply take sellers money and do very little to absolutely nothing to help a seller. If your ebay purchased item is slow arriving as an ebay buyer you may as well just open a case and get the entire purchase price refunded and the item will still arrive a little later for free. I have had many purchases via eBay in the past when I could have done this based on this example.

ebay and Paypal we have closed the ebay store and removed paypal from every ecommerce site we operate. I have closed my personal eBay and PayPal accounts as well. For evermore I will enjoy costing you more money overtime than you cost us. If the only option of buying something is via ebay I wont buy it I would rather go without. If the only option of paying for something is PayPal then I wont buy it or pay for it, I would rather go without. Ebay and Paypal make out they are different companies now in Australia but they are not, it is still a closed shop blocking any real choice.

I remember years ago when I was first starting out a Paypal marketing person asked if they could come out and interview me and they would give me $100 for my time. I spent a few hours answering questions one morning with this Paypal employee and never ever saw the $100.00! Typical.

Ebay continually push sellers to offer free shipping. This is the most ridiculous policy I have ever seen. There is a cost involved in shipping, usually it costs a lot less to ship something to someone in the same suburb compared to someone on the other side of the country or even the other side of the world so how do you include free shipping and not rip some customers off? You cannot, but ebay love ripping people off don't they?

Some other examples

Here is another thing ebay do to their sellers, "Your listing has been removed: Trademark Violation - Unauthorized Listing Content" VeRO

There is some real irony in this (or possibly strategy) because eBay will refund a buyer if an item is not as described but then they allow outsiders to come into ebay and remove your listings without really telling you what the actual issue is.

It is a bit like this, lets say a company named Widget Inc thinks their name is a trademark even though there are other companies in the world with Widget in their name. And lets say other companies make compatible parts for things Widget Inc make. It would be similar to the aftermarket car industry making parts for Holden Ford Toyota Ford Nissan etc and when they list the part as a "xyz part" for a Ford then Ford come along and remove the listing. We actually had many parts with a certain manufacturers name in them as otherwise the listing would be totally meaningless. The listings did not try to make out this was anything other than an aftermarket non genuine part for a Widget but there was one listing that was removed by Widget Inc. They do not tell you what it was they did not like so we modified the listing and reposted it and a while later it was removed, this continued, we would modify and that one single listing would get removed again and again!!! Ebay allow these companies with nothing better to do to remove listings and wash their hands of it by directing you to the "widget Inc company with nothing better to do" if you don't like it!

 After reviewing your eBay account, we've taken the following action:
- Listings have been removed. A list of items that were removed can be viewed at the bottom of this message.
- We have credited all associated fees except for the final value fee for your listing(s).

Your listing was reviewed after receiving a report from the rights owner that your listing used their trademark without their permission. We urge you to contact the rights owner directly for more information on why they requested the review of your listing and whether you can relist the item.

For more information on our VeRO program, please visit:
http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/sell/trademark.html

If you have more questions, contact our policy experts:
http://ocsnext.ebay.com.au/ocs/cusr?query=1337&=PTB1213

Please be sure your current and future listings follow these guidelines, keeping in mind that additional violations could result in the suspension of your account.

The rights owner or an agent authorised to act on behalf of the rights owner, Nothing better to do Widget Inc, notified eBay that this listing violates intellectual property rights. When eBay receives a report of this type of violation, we remove the listing to comply with the law.

We encourage you to contact Widget Inc. directly if you have any questions.

You can send an email to:
we have nothing better to do at widget dot com

For more information on how eBay protects Intellectual Property, or for additional information if you believe that your listing has been removed as a result of an error or misidentification, please visit the following Help page:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/programs-vero-ov.html

To learn more about rules for sellers, go to:
http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/policies/seller-rules-overview.html

Here are the listings that were removed:
******************************************************

We appreciate your cooperation.

Regards,

eBay

Please don't reply to this message. It was sent from an address that doesn't accept incoming email.

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